Who+Knows

Gayef: We shall die all the same. Trophimof: Who knows? And what does it mean to die? Perhaps man has a hundred senses, and when he dies only five senses that we know perish with him, and the other ninety-five remain alive." (Page 24)

This line caught me when I was reading. Trophimof got made fun of a little bit for it, but I still think it's pretty deep. What strikes me as strange about this is that it makes me wonder whether Trophimof believes in heaven. If he believes that 95/100 of our senses stay alive, then where would these senses be used? Certainly not in a pine box six feet under the ground. But is it heaven? It sounds to me that if he did believe in heaven, he would not be questioning what death is so much. When we die, are we really dead? Or is there something more? Who knows? 1205368052

Well, on the contrary, I think that it is because he believes in heaven that he is questioning what death is, because when we "die," we are still alive with God, so does that really make us dead? We are dead physically, but our senses stay alive, so that means that we are not completely gone from the world. He is confused about the nature of death because usually people think that when we die, we're gone forever, and he doesn't think that that's true. So, in a way, when we die, we are not really dead because we live on in the spiritual world. Trophimof also implies that there is more to life than we know. When he talks about humans having 100 senses instead of only 5, he implies that there is something else out there in the world that we humans do not know about. I don't think that he's questioning God or heaven, rather the nature of death. 1205368888

This line struck me as the most interesting. When he refers to the other senses he could be talking about senses that don't have to necessarily pertain to the physical world but rather the senses that our soul may possess but cannot be used until our physical selves die. When I read the words "remain alive", I immediately thought of remaining alive through what our legacy is and what we have done, and that too could be the "senses" that he is referring to. While on the other hand, this could be proof that Peter does believe in heaven or at least an afterlife because where else would we use our other senses that may exist within us.

Another point I would like to make is that this line fits in perfectly with the rest of the play because it questions and satirizes the old Russian upper-class and their traditions. This line merely challenges the very concept of human death and what it is die and what does death actually entail.1205369010

I have to disagree a little bit dov. Even the most faithful Christians cannot help but question death. Even when all is defined and set out in the Bible, death is too tempting a subject to ponder. It is still the biggest mystery in the world next to life itself, at least I think anyway. And even if Trophimof was a completely faithful and trusting Christian, he was also the perpetual student, living to ponder and question the unkown, the yet to be learned. Maybe he was just saying this because he thinks it is something that a smart educated student would say, like the philosophy major in your dorm who is constantly asking what the meaning of existence is just because that's what philosophers are supposed to do. And as for the other senses and where they go, maybe Chekhov is trying to tell us something about our history, as this play is much about the loss of it to modern ways. Maybe he is saying that people like Firs or Renevsky live on in places like the Cherry Orchard, and by destroying places like this, we destroy the people too. Just a thought, any takers?1205372996

I'm not sure if Trophimof believes in a Catholic or even Christian view of death where there is a heaven or a hell, but he does certainly seem to believe in some sort of an afterlife. He implies that there is something more after our death. What are these other 95 senses? I heard a thought once that really relates to this: What if there's a place where people have no eyes. No one has any eyes, so they don't know what they are missing. When they die, they come to our earth and are "reborn" but now with eyes. What if we're like those people and when we die, we'll discover a new sense that we never even knew we were lacking. This idea just reminded me of what Trophimof said. He seems to think that an afterlife is coming in which we don't know what to expect. Perhaps we just don't know what we are missing. I think it's quite appropriate that Trophimof presented this idea. It's quite a deep thought when you think about it, and he is a scholar. Actually, throughout the entire play, he often makes very deep comments, usually which are ignored by the other characters. Is he bringing a deeper knowledge to the play? Why do the others ignore him? Should his wisdom be respected or is he just rambling at times?1205374980

MSu, I think you made a great point when you talked about the legacy of the person who has died. This is what first came to my mind when I read those lines. I think that after we die, a part of our sense stays alive because of the people who remember us. When people die we always talk about them and everything they have done, it is almost as if we still try to keep them alive for a little bit longer. People talk about all he has done, what he wanted to do and it is almost as if you are bringing his spirit back to life. In regards to Kho's question on why do the others ignore him, I think that that was intentionally on Chekhov's part. Throughout the whole play we say characters ignoring each other and rambling on about something completely different. When Trophimof made this profound statement Chekhov made sure that the other characters didn't pay attention. It almost seemed as if the other characters were not capable of understanding this idea. 1205375637

I really like the way that Trophimof views death. I think that he does have very deep insight. I don't think that we can infer exactly what his spiritual beliefs are, but we can infer that they do exist. He has more than just book knowledge. I think that the character's view does bring a lot of insight because he is stating that there is more than just the physical aspect of a person. There is something inside. We have five physical senses, but we also have many more. Humans are more than just physical beings. I think that these other senses are things like our soul, memory, legacy, beliefs, faith, thoughts, motives, and emotions. We don't leave these things behind when we die in a physical sense. According to Christian beliefs, we will be judged by God on judgment day. These other 95 "sense" are the things that God will be able to see. He won't be looking at our physical nature because it has died. It is not what is important. I would like to think that Trophimof understands that.1205381853

Trophimof is quite an interesting character. I agree that he is in touch with his feeling and is sometime irrational and dreaming. This is why he is an awesome foil to Lophkin who is rational, logical, and lacks much emotion. I believe that Trophimof has a spiritual if he does not have a religious side as bga points. I mean he is one of the few character to actually admits he loves another character. And, when he says he loves Anysa, it is not like Barbara when she says she loves Lophkin because he would be a reliable husband. I believe Trohimof actually has some pretty deep feeling for her. I do question his how sincere he is sometimes though. Him stating that they are above love is a bunch of meaningless air. I believe no one can possibly be above love; thus, maybe he's in that giddy puppy love stage. However, he does have clear, meaninful view on life. 1205409874

Maybe his 95 out of 100 senses outliving the five that die is not so much as a Christian reference as a reference to another religion. This is probably a stretch but maybe he believes in reincarnation or some other type of rebirth. Maybe he figures that he will be reborn again and again until the end of time where it will all end once he dies after having only 5 out of 100 senses left. That could be why nobody really paid attention to him when he made this profound statement about death. If his religious views are so far outside of the standard, accepted Christian beliefs, maybe nobody hears him in the play because his beliefs represent such a small proportion of society that nobody takes notice of them. I don’t think I really buy the argument that the 95 senses left behind are part of the legacy that he left behind or the memories that people have of him. From what we know he has not led an extraordinary life or made a huge impact on a large number of people so not a whole lot of people are going to be there to remember him when he dies and even then, their memories will probably last only another generation or two. His statement seems to imply a long time of continuity of his soul/being after death and having only the next one or two generations remember him doesn’t really seem to fit the implications of his profound statement. 1205440945

I think that this statement is really just showing how little we do know about what happens after death. The thought of 100 senses is something that I can't really comprehend. I saw the sixth sense, and I thought that kid was kind of out there, but imagine what the other 94 would be. Everything that we can comprehend in the world around us we use our five senses to understand, so it makes sense to me that if there are 95 other senses, then we only know a fraction of what there is to be experienced in the world. 1205445988

I think I totally ignored this line until just now, but I find it to intriguing because it is actually quite a deep, profound thought. I think that what Trophimof was getting at was this idea that even though we may physically die, we still live on in the sense that we are remembered by those we know. I think those other 95 senses he's talking about are our actions and the memories associated with them that stick around far past our deaths. Also, I will agree in saying that he was to an extent talking about just how little we do know about what happens and where we go after death. I mean, we have faith that something good happens, but we really don't concretely know what happens after we die so all we can really do is speculate and hope that it's a good thing. What Trophimof is perhaps doing though is commenting on how perhaps we don't fully take advantage of what we have and instead just restrict ourselves to the 5 senses we know and don't focus on the other 95. I think he was saying that there's so much more to ourselves that too often we don't get to realize. 1205448164

I don't know if he is talking about Heaven per say, but maybe about some kind of afterlife. I don't think that would be a stretch to deduce that, because it's like he is saying that death is bigger than us. Something goes on in his opinion. Which is interesting, because I feel like a lot of the happenings in the book have permanent, clear cut endings, and this doesn't match that. There is a sense of continuity, and that if life in this world "ends," it is not completely lost. It is one of life's great mysteries, and one of the main things that nags at our human brains. What does it mean to die, indeed?! Gayef also reminds me of Ecclesiastes, where he says we will all have the same end, no matter what we do here on earth. If that were a factor, then maybe it was actually about Heaven. 1205449544 I was also struck by this quote, because it is quite profound. The idea that we might have 100 senses puzzled me, because it does not make sense that we would only be able to use five of them, or know about five of them, if we possessed so many. But it reminded me of something we read in Latin, when Cicero writes about the nature of the universe. He discusses the idea of the music of the planets, that all planets make a certain kind of music, but because we fill our ears with human concerns, we are deaf to this universal music. Perhaps, then, Peter is also suggesting that death will free us from human distractions and allow us to fully utilize our other 95 senses. However, I didn't find anything especially Catholic or even Christian in this idea, because such an idea does not in any way imply the existence of a place called heaven, or an all powerful power called God, but it does suggest that Peter is a spiritual person and that he believes in more than the physical life. Furthermore, I don't think that devotion to a religion would fit with Peter's character: he seems to devoted to thinking and questioning to accept the ultimate authority of organized religion.

Finally, I noticed that this is another place when different ideologies come into conflict--Gayef, an old man, finds his fulfillment in the present, physical life, while Peter, a young and hopeful man, sees a future even beyond the earth. 1205455966