A+modern+ballad,+or+is+it?

This is one of my favorite Johnny Cash songs: A Boy Named Sue. Here is the clip of it being originally performed at San Quentin Prison in 1969. media type="youtube" key="M89c3hWx3RQ&rel=1" height="355" width="425" Wonderful, isn't it? Now, my question to you is whether it is a true ballad or not. It clearly tells a short narrative about an event. It also uses "popular/local speech and dialogue," sometimes through the use of colorful language and analogies. However, I'm not quite sure whether or not it's written in four line stanzas, and it seems to be written in couplets rather than abab or abcb. I think that its ballad qualities supercede its form discrepancies. What do you guys think?1202170101

I think this is definitely a Ballad because it is an example of something that can fit into the loose definition that we have assigned to the ballad. I think that because it is a poem telling a story set to music it is a ballad. However, the problem with stretching the definition of a ballad is that we could call almost every song a ballad. I think that the keys to a ballad are that it tells a story, is able to be set to music, and has some form of constant rhythm. I like this song and I think that it can definitely be classified in the category of Ballad.1202175369

I would agree with mha. I also think this is a ballad. The form of a ballad is so loose that so many things can fit under its umbrella. I would say that most songs are ballads. When ballads were first written and circulated they were for entertainment. Isn't that what we do today with songs? The difference is that with songs today they don't change from one performance to another, and we definately know who the author is. I would say that any song that tells a story is a ballad. Its fits all the requirements of the form and is even true to past uses. Just because the song isn't about death, doesn't mean its not a ballad. Its about stories that we can relate to today. 1202229952

I, like everyone else, think that this is a ballad. I agree with adi that most songs are ballads. If you look at the lyrics of a song and read them without putting them to music, they are ballads. In this song, it is telling us a story and by listening to this song we are keeping it alive and passing it on which is what ballads are meant to do. I totally think that this is a ballad and by realizing that most songs are, it makes me see music and the creativity of songwriting is an totally new light. Even though this doesn't have a set form, I still think that it can be categorized as a ballad. 1202243422

NVa, I love this song too, and yes, I'm going to go ahead and agree with everyone else here -- it's a ballad. I looked up the actual definition of a ballad and it is as follows: A narrative poem, often of folk origin and intended to be sung, consisting of simple stanzas and usually having a refrain. If this isn't the folky-est, simple stanza-ridden ballad I've ever heard, then I don't know what is. And I love it. I think that's one thing that I like so much about the ballad -- in the past I've struggled with the fact that there were very strict guidelines as to how to write poetry forms, and yet some of the authors weren't following them at all and still referring to them as that specific form. The Ballad has a loose guideline to follow, but it can be interpreted in many different ways, so it doesn't feel like the author is breaking any rules by messing around with it a bit. Wonderful stuff. 1202249537

First off, I would like to say that Johnny Cash is amazing. Shockingly, I also think that this song is a ballad. I looked up "ballad poetry" on the internet and found on wikipedia that in the twentieth century, the word ballad became known as any popular song "especially of romantic or sentimental nature". However, I think that not only is this a modern song, but it can also be considered a traditional ballad. Although, the rhyme scheme is off, I don't think that it is that important to a ballad. Typically, they do follow this pattern, but I'm sure that there are variations in form. Further, this song tells a story in poetic form and uses colloquialims which are both essential aspects of a ballad. 1202249677

ok. i totally love Johnny Cash. but anyway...this song is a ballad. I dont care what the form rules say or any of that //abab// business. Remember in the sonnets section when we were reading certain sonnets and we thought "how on earth did this get into the sonnet section?" I think it was actually one entitled Sonnet and then some number. I remember discussing it in class and we said that it had to be because of its name and the theme. I dont think that a ballad always has to follow perfect form. This song by Johnny Cash has ballad qualities about it and they by far exceed the form rules. If i was compiling "Molly's Making of a Poem" (i know, a shocking thought), this song would be placed in the ballads section. no doubt. 1202255824

I will reserve my true sentiments for a later date. As for now, for discussion purposes, this is not a ballad. A ballad is defined by the 5 criteria on page 73 of //The Making of a Poem//, and clearly, this song by Johnny Cash not only neglects the abab rhyming, but also the "usual ballad meter. . . first and third line with four stresses--iambic tetrameter-- and then a second and fourth with three stresses-- iambic trimeter". These lines do not really have that meter; in fact, the meter of this song is more of a stretched iambic pentameter. So far, this song has failed two out the five criteria for a ballad. Now let us look at the fourth criteria on pg. 73: The subject matter is distinctive: almost always communal stories of lost love, supernatural happenings, or recent events."

This is not lost love, as "Sue" and his father get back together. This is not supernatural as an old-fashioned fight in a back country town is certainly not supernatural. And finally, we have no indication that this was a recent event. All Johnny gives us is "Well, it was Gatlinburg in mid-July" What July? Was it this past July? What is the time frame here? We simply do not know. In fact, we can infer, if anything, that this was not recent as the vagueness of the aforementioned time specification reveals the vagueness of the memory, i.e. this was not recent.

Therefore, this song has failed 3 out of the five criteria, or 60%. When anything fails a majority of the criteria, I would say that it does not fit whatever criteria it is trying to fit. Thus, this is NOT A BALLAD.1202273486

The song may have failed the "rules" of the past for the ballad, but I don't think following the rules is what is important. On page 77, our book says, "In recent times new media continue to suggest the early origins and customs of the ballads. Country-and-western is one, and rap also is clear, narrative and communal. It does not keep to the old quatrain or the old rhyme scheme. But its immediacy, music and spontaneaous methods of compositions shed real light on the true nature of the ballad." The purpose of the ballad (or any type of poetry) is not to follow a bunch of rules. It has to do with emotion and the essence of the poem. This song, and most others, follow the essence of a ballad and present it in a way that is compatible with today's society. 1202276318

I do see this song as a //ballad//. It is great performed, but I could also imagine it on paper, still retaining its lryrical quality and rich, meaningful lyrics. What is definitely evident and necessary for ballads from what I can tell is their narrative quality in general. And this tune, of course, does have a narrative to it; one does not know where the story is going to end up, but the poem wraps the reader or listener in with its rhythm and structure. The structure is not perfect -- for instance, the rhyme scheme is not exactly //abab//, but it does have four stanzas of rhyme that follow a pattern. Now, I could not catch the exact stresses of the poem, but the beats and sound of it seemed to follow the general ballad form. It was a little different than just any other song, and there was no repetition of a refrain or drawn-words. Rather, the diction told an enticing story itself, which was put to meter and song. What I liked especially was the personal touch, but it was still something somewhat "communal" because there are other people who can relate.1202276695

Tom, you argue that "A Boy Named Sue" doesn't fit the form of the ballad. But it does, just not perfectly. Granted, there is nothing I can do about the rhyme scheme, but take a second look at the meter.

My **da**ddy left **home** when **I** was **three** And he didn't leave **much** to **ma** and **me** //Just this old guitar and an empty bottle of booze.// Now, **I** don't **blame** him cause he **run** and **hid** But the **mean**est thing that he **e**ver **did** //Was before he left, he went and named me "Sue."// If you look at the pattern, you will see that lines 1 and 2 and 4 and 5 follow the pattern perfectly. If we remove the third, and sixth, our meter is perfect to the form. So I wouldn’t count that as a strike against. Clearly the song centers around the story of a man’s life, and the vernacular is heavy within the song. The only other point of contention is the subject matter. It is not about love or supernatural happenings, but the events exclude this prerequisite for two reasons. First of all, let’s consider that this song was written in the modern day (well, 1969, but you know), but to be played as if it were an ancient ballad. The ballads in our book are ballads even though the events they concern happened centuries ago. Second, the song is not Cash’s own. He was given the words by Shel Silverstein (yes, that Shel) and merely performed. An ancient bard might have done the same, even if his story was neither contemporary nor a local fable. I really think that “Boy Named Sue” meets the essential qualifications of a ballad, especially if “We Real Cool” does. 1202279129

I think that as time progresses, ballads and all poems change in their nature. As we can see from this song by Johnny Cash, this ballad is not the same as the ballads written back in the 1800's, but at the same time it is. I think this gradual change and modification is perfectly normal and perfecty acceptable, because as times change, so do we. At the same time, I would still define this as a ballad. Even though it is much more modern, it is still a ballad. I think that any poem written recently would seem much more modern than the poems of the past. However, is it possible to create a ballad in current times that sounds like it was written many, many years ago? 1202304676

I don't think that Ballads need to be strict about following the rules. If every poem had to strictly follow the rules then we probably wouldn't have such a wide variety of poetry forms, but I don't think this one is too far off mark for the Ballad. It has the story, and the rhyme scheme is not too far off. I think this is just as much a ballad as anything we've read in class, it's just a little newer. I'm sure that when Johnny Cash was writing this song he wasn't looking at a form of a ballad, and trying to follow it perfectly. but was probably jsut trying to write an entertaining story about a boy named sue. 1202314424

I also have to agree that this song is a ballad--and while I agree that perhaps it doesn't perfectly follow the rhyme and rhythm of a strict ballad form, it is, as Tim pointed out, pretty close if you think about it. Furthermore, I don't think that we can rule it out as a ballad because it doesn't specifically fit the subject matter discussed in our book. Remember, the authors of our book were facing a difficult task when they had to define what exactly a ballad is--so they looked for common themes and wrote a definition from that. But that does not mean that from the beginning of time, people looked up a set of rules when they were writing ballad. Rather, they listened to other ballads and used them as guidelines--in the days of the balladeers, I really doubt that they had to take a licensing test to get the job, or that they had a handy pocket-sized ballad manual... ok, what I'm trying to say is that those "rules" really are just a way that the authors of our book chose to generalize a the poem. They're guidelines, to help us understand the basic concept. So I think that this song is most certainly a ballad, because, for the most part, we all have interpreted it as such by comparing it with what we know to be a ballad. It is our perception that is important, not the rules. 1202336075