Better+Without+Rhyme?

As I was reading about The History of the Form again, a thought occurred to me ~ is this poetic form, or even poetry in general, better //without rhyme//? "The Italians called blank verse //verse sciolti da rima//--verse free from rhyme" (102). The word "free" struck me -- it implies that rhyme is rather constraining and that, without it, richer and better diction is possible. This makes sense. Not that I am a professional poet or anything, but I know that when I write a poem, I often find it hard to think of //how// to say what I //want// to say next if the last word of the line needs to rhyme -- there are only so many options. I like what is said on page 103, too: "blank verse was revealed to be a natural vehicle for rhymic and sustained speech, where complex argument and emotion could be sustained without be drowned out by rhyme." The meaning is more adequately expressed and, the words do not have to follow a certain rule of rhyme or end up sounding like a " 'jingling sound' " (103).

What does everyone think? Do you like the poems better with or without rhyme? Is the musical quality of rhyme enough to override its faults?1203559998

I don't think that it would be detrimental for a poem to not rhyme. Look at the great poems of history, such as Hamlet, Macbeth, the Aeneid, and all the epics. None of them rhyme, but they are all still poems because they strictly follow a rhyme scheme. Even without rhyming, which Shakespeare in his skill could have easily used, these poems remain gems of literature. But still, I have immense respect for a poet who can write a great poem and rhyme. It shows me that the poet has skill and determination. I would not word my view by saying that rhyming restrains poetry, but rather that it makes it more difficult to write, which is undeniably true.1203563055

I do not really agree that rhyming has faults, as sfa says. Often times, unrhymed poetry lacks adequate meaning and value, due to the ease of its creation. Though you say that the meaning of the poem is more adequately expressed without rhyme, I disagree. The point of a poem is not to make the meaning or lesson blatantly obvious, at least it isn't in most good poems. If meaning was the most important thing to the writer, wouldn't prose be the most effective avenue? And the jingling sound really only occurs with rhymed couplets, most other rhyme schemes do not have the same problem. As to whether I like poems better with or without rhyme, it depends on the quality of the poem, as well as the length and the intention. An epic poem, obviously, would become burdensome if it rhymed. Like John says there are great poems on both sides of the issue.1203651957

Ever since we were little it has been imprinted on our brains that poem=rhyme. We can all thank Dr. Seuss for that. Every poem we were read as a kid had differet rhymes throughout and that was all that we were used to. Rhyme was important for children because it kept their interest. However, once we were older, we learned that all poems don't have to rhyme. We can have blank verse, free verse, and any other non rhyming verse. I think because of our childhood and the rhymes that were imprinted on our minds, that is all we can think of when we read poetry. Rhyme helps grab the readers attention and it becomes slightly more enjoyable. But we have learned to appreciate other poetry. Personally, I think that rhyme kind of clutters a poem up. We get stuck in a back and forth motion. But without rhyme, we can read through it easily. 1203781022

I don't think it is fair to say that poetry is better without rhyme. Rhyme is just another aspect of a poem that a writer can chose to use to convey their ideas. Of course, I do think that it is a good thing to have so many forms of poetry, including blank verse, so that a poet can chose what will be effective for them. Sometimes, the sound of the rhyme can be important, if not vital, to the purpose of the poem... for example, if the poet wanted to create the sound of the ocean waves or a sense of a certain emotion (and, while rhyme can "jingle," it is so much more than that). In poetry, it is not just the words that matter, as in prose when our primary goal is to comprehend the words literally. In poetry, the shapes and sounds that words make help to communicate an idea or way of thinking, and depending upon the poet's idea, rhyme can be very useful in that. 1203879823

I don't think you can say that peotry is better without rhyme or with it. I think you have to look at it as just different mediums for expression. It all depends on the message or meaning behind the poem. What is the reason you want to write a poem. It's all subjective and fluid. Because I don't think poetry in general is better with or without rhyme, it still doesn't mean that I think all blank verse and all rhymed poems sound good. The employment of these poetic forms can still be messed up. Your blank verse can make a poem seem more boring than it needs to be. Just becuase it's poetry doesn't mean that audiences will read your stuff if it bores the hell out of them. Then again, rhyming patterns on certain poems of certain subject matters can make them sound like a joke or catchy jingle. Then again, both of these forms can open doors for the poet. it's all up to you.1203898583

I think whether poetry is better with or without rhyme is completely dependent on the person and what they like. It also depends on the form and subject of the poem. Sometimes you may not want rhyme in a poem because it may not be solemn enough or convey the idea that the poet wants, yet at the same time a poem may require rhyme because it fits the poem. It could make it more lighthearted or musical, but again it all dependents on what the poet is trying to convey to the reader. Some people feel that rhyme sounds too childish while others feel that without the poem is boring. So there isn't a concrete answer to that question since it is so subjective.1203905143

There is no perfect answer to this question, just like there is no perfect answer to the question of the definition of poetry. Depending on the intent of the author, rhyme may or may not support the mood of the poem. Br. Tom mentioned in class today that in long poems, especially with rhyme such as the heroic couplet, eventually the reader is practically reading in his sleep because the poem becomes more about the rhythm than the words and it puts the reader in a lull. Sometimes, this may be advantageous to some poems, in which the poet is attempting to convey more of a feeling or more of a musical quality rather than an actual specific message. However, this would not be beneficial to a poem that is more narrative in nature, in which the message is more important than the sound. It depends on the author's objective. 1203981326

I think that the poems with end rhyme have become so familiar to us all, almost predictable, but exciting when played around with. I think that we have all been trained to recognize poetry as a specific form that includes that end rhyme, for the most part. So many pieces of literature have flown through our heads in the last several years that we can't always appreciate the variations of poetry we come across. I think that because some poets eliminate the rhyme, we are somewhat wary of those, and gravitate, rather, to the "traditional" poems we grew up with. Not only this, but I feel that we've been trained to recognize anything with stanzas must have a rhyme scheme somewhere. But in the end, I agree with MSu, that the preference of end rhyme vs. no end rhyme is completely up to the reader. 1204068073

I think it's much easier to write poetry when it has some sort of rhyme scheme, and I think that goes for almost everyone. However, I don't think you can necessarily call a poem "better" or "worse" according to whether or not it has a rhyme scheme. It completely depends on the person writing them and the person reading them. I actually have a whole lot of respect for people who can come up with blank verse poetry, because it's so ridiculously hard for me to write something that doesn't have a rhyming pattern of some sort. I think it's incredible that someone can take something so similar to prose and turn it into a poem. However, one cannot be considered better than the other. It's all about personal preference. 1204073139

I like a poem with rhyme because it is the classic definition of poetry; it is what we have always learned that makes a poem. However, I think there is also something to a poem that does not rhyme. I have always thought that to be a true poem, it had to rhyme. However, I am realizing that rhyming may or may not be part of the true definition of a poem. I am finding that the definition of poetry can be very subjective and each person can have his or her own definition. I was surprised to read "The Colonel" and find that it is a poem; reading just this poem has shown me that a poem does not need to rhyme at all to be powerful and meaningful. I found "The Colonel" to be more meaningful because it did not rhyme; the form allowed me to concentrate on the meaning instead of only the form.1204073345

Even though forms such as blank verse, don't necessarily have a rhyme scheme, I still get some sense of rhythm from them, but yes I like how there is that freedom to really do anything. If anything, it is empowering to the poet because it sets no boundaries on what can be said and allows him/her to express the poem without having to compromise and follow a set form. Yes, form can be good and there's a million poems out there that are great that follow set forms, but I think it's almost the purest form of expression when a writer is allowed this freedom to write without having to confine him/herself to a particular rhyme scheme; it allows for the possibility of a direct expression of exactly what is on the writer's mind. I agree with MRo though that it is admirable when someone can write something that is good in blank verse because we are taught from a young age that poems must have a rhyme scheme and this just goes against this fundamental lesson we've been learning all these years. It almost makes the poem more dangerous in a sense because there are no real rules in blank verse and so a poet can do practically anything.1204078972

I wholeheartedly agree with you on this one because although it may sound cool and add to the poem in that regard, when I am writing a poem just finding rhyming words is more of a limitation than a tool. I often find myself searching rhyming dictionaries online just to find a list of words that rhyme with "earth," which is not many by the way. I remember writing my villanelle and thinking that some of the stanzas didn't make sense but it was the only way I could rhyme the needed lines. I think this is why there have been more variations in modern poetry, because they are beginning to recognize that rhyme schemes are excellent if they can be followed but aren't a true necessity. The meaning and ideas expressed should be the most prominent issue in the poet's writing of the poem, if he can manage to throw in some rhymes then that's what makes poets like Shakespeare great, their ability of using wordplay.1204083618

Rhyming is a complete constraint on poetry--it isn't a free expression if you are constantly changing what you want to say to fit the form. I find this to be a problem with most of the forms we studied; while it's good if you want to have a certain effect, it is certainly limiting. When writing you aren't always going to end up with a sentence that will end perfectly in a rhyme; you have to play around a lot and maybe express what you want to say in a way that is not as eloquent as if you had written it freely without worrying about rhyming. Sometimes it is nearly impossible to rhyme a word, and you really want to say this, but to say it, you have to add something ridiculous in the next line that doesn't go with the rest of the poem, because it needs to rhyme. I find the rhyme to be extremely constricted and unreasonable as a form of expression or poetry. 1204156413

While I do enjoy rhyme in poetry, if good poem doesn't necessarily need rhyme to enhance it, then it can do without it. The poem about the general and the ears is a perfect example: rhyme would have dulled the effect of the ears being slammed down onto the table and made light of the situation, whereas the block paragraph form emphasized it much more to the reader. When I write poetry, I tend to lean towards poetry with rhyming, just because it is easier to know you are writing a poem when the ends have a rhyming pattern. I would probably enjoy writing blank verse more; however, I am not at the level of reading poetry yet where I can completely tell the difference between blank verse and prose. I think that rhythm is much more important to a poem than rhyme is; this is the reason why blank verse is considered poetry. I have trouble identifying it when it is there, but I know when it is not, if that makes sense. So, I guess in summary I think that, while rhyme can enhance a poem, it is not necessary to write a great poem. 1204171536

I am glad that you mentioned whether poetry is better with or without rhyme because, honestly, I think it comes down to a matter of opinion. There is no right or wrong answer to the way poetry should be.

Reading some of your posts, I immediately thought back to today's class, in which we discussed Alexander Pope's "Essay on Criticism." One of the first points I brought up in class was that I liked the fact that every couplet had an end rhyme; however, others found it distracting. Again, it comes down to a matter of opinion.

As Brother Tom mentioned, part of the "danger" (I guess you could say) when reading aloud poems with a rhyme scheme is falling into the sing-song pattern. Reading in such a manner takes away from the content of the poem because sometimes we rather focus on reading it in an amusing way. I am not saying that there is anything wrong with that; it is easy to fall into this trap by reading rhymes aloud.

Overall, some great poems rhyme...others don't. In terms of what types of poetry a person prefers, to each his own. 1204174807

I think the only way that rhyming can be a bad quality is if a writer has to hold back or leave out an important part of his writing in order to fit a rhyme scheme. In my opinion though, it's all about how a poet utilizes the method of rhyming. Rhyming can be beneficiary as well. It all depends on taste. Each poet has their own style, so does a reader. Every reader prefers one style over another. It's all about what works for the individual, reader or writer. I think whether a rhyming pattern is harmful and restristive or helpful is a matter not only of opinion, but even more so of purpose. Whatever the author intends may be more flavorful with rhyme or possibly better understood left alone as is. Who's to say? I think this is the kind of thing where you can only judge it case by case, but I do think that rhyming can be both a detriment or an addition to a poem. 1204188231

There is definitely something to be said about the rhyming within poems just because it is striking and impressive. It is done in such an artful way that draws a major portion of the attention to the end words of the line. This means that the poet must be careful in choosing these end words because of the emphasis on them. The drawback of this is that the end words may take the attention away from the line. Another drawback of having rhyme in poems is that it can be limiting. It makes poets phrase sentences in ways that are not normal, and makes them say things in a way that they would not necessarily want to say them. I think a common misconception is that poetry that doesn't rhyme is not musical. A large number of songs on the radio today have no rhyme whatsoever, and that does not make them any less musical. In this way, a poet should choose a form that fits his purpose. The poet must supply what the given poem calls for. 1204241702

Well, I think that even though blank verse is an easier read, I don't see it as an easier write. It still takes a great deal of skill to write it, especially if it is worth reading or going to be remembered as an impressive work. So I therefore do not think that rhymed poems are better than unrhymed, and vice versa. It is interesting, though, that when we were in gradeschool, we just learnt of the ryhming ones. I didn't really think that certain works were real poems if they didn't, but I now see how wrong I was. They both take skill, and can both be extremely challenging to interpret. Blank verse may be the closest poetry to human speech, but the poets certainly don't make it easy. 1204255386

That's an Italian expression I think, just the way you say something does not have something it typically has, and doesn't necessarily hold the same connotations you just pinned down on it. I think rhyme is a very good and useful tool of poetry though, and in fact is among the most important, so those lacking it aren't really poetry, but rather very well-contructed prose works. Rhyme constrains, but so does art in general. I mean, you can't just randomly put something together and call it art, and you can't sculpt out very detailed parts of a body for a human rendition, but get the proportions wrong; it all needs to fit, so that's naturally constraining in a way. Poetry has the same deal with rhyme: you can pick this form or that, but you've got to follow the rules you're given, and so I'm not sure blank verse is really poetry, but something else, because it defies this and has no essential structure or rhyme. Yeah, you've got less words that can rhyme with which to write your poetry, but then you've got something that sounds good when the words are chosen right, like when the sculptor masters the proportions of the human form. 1204259049

When I'm writing poetry for school assignments, I hate when I have to rhyme, I really feel that it limits what I have to say because, like SFa said way in the beginning, there are only so many words you can use that will rhyme. Now with that said, and with my admitting that I don't consider myself a particularly talented poet, I enjoy reading poems more when they are rhymed. Perhaps it's because I feel that I cannot create such a beautiful work that still makes sense, but something about a rhyming poem that actually sounds good is attractive. Sometimes when we read blank verse and especially when we read free verse, I come across a poem that is especially random or confusing. Many times I think that the poem is solely a random grouping of words. There have been more than one time where I've thought, "I could have written that!" I think this is the appeal of rhyming poems to me--I admire the talent and creativity that it takes to write them. 1204855746

I think that it is so much harder to write poems that rhyme compared to writing poems in free verse. You can have a really good idea of what you want to write a poem about but if you can't come up with words that rhyme then it is a lot harder to finish a poem and still get your original point across. When it comes to reading poetry I would much rather read a poem that has a rhyme scheme. It seems to flow together better when I read it instead of just sounding like everyday language. While I enjoy reading poems that rhyme, it is hard to read the poem with out reading it with a beat that goes with each line. I think that the beat that I put in sometimes distracts me from paying attention to the meaning of the poem and what the author is trying to say. 1205285867

I don't think we can ever use words like better or worse when comparing types of poetry, or different uses of poetic techniques. Every poem is a different situation and we can't fool ourselves into thinking that it is something that we can make a set of rules for. I think that we can all agree that there are many times when rhyme sounds really good, and many poems would be lacking if they didn't have any rhyme. Other times poems work really well in the absence of rhyme. And yet we always seem to want to say that it is better this way or that way, and I think it is unfair to look at things with such a closed mind because if I start reading a poem thinking to myself, "I prefer poems that rhyme" then I'm going to already have something going against it if it doesn't rhyme, but if we I keep an open mind it's easier to be objective, and fair when I read and I think that it's a lot easier to understand what they poet is saying instead of trying to judge the way he is saying it.1205293274

I feel that for the vast majority of readers, rhyming in a poem is detrimental. In most cases, people see poems as pieces of rhyming writing. We learn this from childhood. What were taught at a young age tends to stick with us. I know that when I was young my mom read me Dr. Seuss and as I got older I started reading Shel Silverstein. All of those writers' books of poetry are based around rhyming. I grew up with those authors and were a major part of my reading for quite sometime; therefore, I think that is part of the reason why rhyming is detrimental. To this day I have trouble dealing with poems that seem more like prose to me or just seem like a piece of writing in general. Sometimes I choose not to like a poem because of that reason. I think a lot of people, ecspecially in America, are in the same boat. Rhyming poetry is what they were taught. For them, rhyming could also be detrimental to a poem's liking. For a large majority of readers, rhyming in a poem is what it comes down to.1205383094